Legislature(1999 - 2000)

01/19/2000 01:16 PM House JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
         HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                  January 19, 2000                                                                                              
                     1:16 p.m.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Pete Kott, Chairman                                                                                              
Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                                                                  
Representative Lisa Murkowski                                                                                                   
Representative Eric Croft                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Joe Green                                                                                                        
Representative Jeannette James                                                                                                  
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
OVERVIEW OF ALASKA COURT SYSTEM BY CHRIS CHRISTENSEN                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 220                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the amendment and revocation of spouses'                                                                    
community property agreements and community property trusts; and                                                                
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HB 220 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 222                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the remedies available to judgment creditors                                                                
against limited liability company members and their assignees and                                                               
against limited partnership general and limited partners and their                                                              
assignees; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HB 222 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 221                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to a trustee's duties to inform and account to                                                                 
beneficiaries; relating to the revocation, modification,                                                                        
termination, reformation, construction, and trustees of trusts; and                                                             
relating to transfer restrictions in trusts."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 220                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: COMMUNITY PROPERTY AGREEMENT/TRUSTS                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 5/04/99      1158     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 5/04/99      1158     (H)  JUD                                                                                                 
 5/07/99               (H)  JUD AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
 5/07/99               (H)  SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                             
 1/19/00               (H)  JUD AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 222                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: LTD PARTNERSHIPS AND LTD. LIAB. COMPANIES                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 5/05/99      1179     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 5/05/99      1179     (H)  JUD                                                                                                 
 1/19/00               (H)  JUD AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS CHRISTENSEN, Staff Counsel                                                                                                
Office of the Administrative Director                                                                                           
Alaska Court System                                                                                                             
820 West 4th Avenue                                                                                                             
Anchorage, Alaska  99501-2005                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented overview of Alaska Court System and                                                              
answered questions.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
LESIL McGUIRE, Legislative Assistant                                                                                            
   to Representative Pete Kott                                                                                                  
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 118                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  As Committee Aide for House Judiciary Standing                                                             
Committee, presented overviews based on sponsor statements for HB
220 and HB 222; answered questions.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ERIC KUEFFNER, Attorney at Law                                                                                                  
Faulkner Banfield, PC                                                                                                           
302 Gold Street                                                                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 220 on own behalf and answered                                                             
questions; testified briefly in support of HB 222.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
STEPHEN GREER, Attorney at Law                                                                                                  
4041 B Street, Suite 205                                                                                                        
Anchorage, Alaska  99503                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified briefly in support of HB 220 and HB
222.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DAVID SHAFTEL, Attorney at Law                                                                                                  
550 West 7th Avenue                                                                                                             
Anchorage, Alaska  99501                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 220 and explained                                                               
provisions at length; testified that HB 222 is an excellent                                                                     
amendment that will strengthen Alaska's law and is important from                                                               
a business standpoint.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
DOUGLAS BLATTMACHR, President                                                                                                   
  and Chief Executive Officer                                                                                                   
Alaska Trust Company                                                                                                            
1029 West 3rd Avenue                                                                                                            
Anchorage, Alaska  99501                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 220 and answered                                                                
questions about the positive effects of community property                                                                      
legislation on Alaska's business community; testified that HB 222                                                               
is an excellent amendment that will strengthen Alaska's law and                                                                 
will encourage people to use Alaska's trust jurisdiction.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-1, SIDE A                                                                                                               
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN PETE KOTT called the House Judiciary Standing Committee                                                                
meeting to order at 1:16 p.m.  Members present at the call to order                                                             
were Representatives Kott, Rokeberg and Murkowski.  Representative                                                              
Croft arrived as the meeting was in progress.  Chairman Kott noted                                                              
that Representatives Green, Croft and Kerttula were attending                                                                   
another hearing and Representative James was out of town.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
OVERVIEW OF ALASKA COURT SYSTEM BY CHRIS CHRISTENSEN                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT invited Chris Christensen to present an overview of                                                               
the Alaska Court System.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0119                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS CHRISTENSEN, Staff Counsel, Office of the Administrative                                                                  
Director, Alaska Court System, first discussed historical concepts                                                              
relating to the courts.  The framers of the Constitution of the                                                                 
United States had wanted to put together a system of government                                                                 
that protected individual liberty by preventing the government from                                                             
becoming too powerful, he explained.  They looked to the writings                                                               
of an eighteenth century French political philosopher, Montesquieu,                                                             
who had come up with the concept of separation of powers.                                                                       
Montesquieu believed the best way to protect individual citizens'                                                               
liberty is to split government into three separate entities -                                                                   
legislative, judicial and executive - and to give each a piece of                                                               
the government's power, thereby preventing the government itself                                                                
from becoming too powerful.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN pointed out that all 50 states follow this model.                                                               
According to a number of constitutional scholars, however, Alaska's                                                             
constitution has the purest form of separation of powers of any of                                                              
the 50 states.  The people who put Alaska's constitution together                                                               
in the 1950s were libertarians by nature, he noted, being                                                                       
protective of individuals' rights and wanting to break the shackles                                                             
of the federal government.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN explained that Alaska has three branches of                                                                     
government plus the university; it isn't clear whether the                                                                      
university is part of the executive branch or is an independent                                                                 
entity.  Together, the legislature and the courts make up about 2                                                               
percent of Alaska's state government; the executive branch makes up                                                             
87 percent; and the university makes up 11 percent.  The executive                                                              
branch is headed by one person, from whom all the power flows down.                                                             
In contrast, the legislature has 60 individuals, each with his or                                                               
her own base of constitutionally mandated power.  Similarly, the                                                                
courts have 57 individual officers, each with individual power.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN noted that perhaps more important is how - and why                                                              
- the judiciary is different from the legislature.   The judiciary                                                              
is generally considered by political scientists the least powerful                                                              
of the three branches.  The federal constitution was drafted so                                                                 
that Congress was the most powerful, followed by the executive                                                                  
branch and then the judiciary; since the Civil War, that has                                                                    
changed a bit, and people now generally accept that the executive                                                               
branch is more powerful than Congress.  Alaska's constitutional                                                                 
framers had a little different perspective, wanting the executive                                                               
branch to be more powerful than the legislature, with the courts in                                                             
third place.  In the last 40 years, the power has shifted a little,                                                             
and Alaska's executive branch has become even more powerful                                                                     
relative to the legislature.  The primary reason that the judiciary                                                             
has less power than other branches is because the courts are purely                                                             
reactive and cannot initiate actions.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0401                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN explained that the other major difference between                                                               
the legislature and the judiciary goes to the heart of the system                                                               
which the framers were trying to set up to ensure that liberty was                                                              
protected.  The legislature essentially is the majoritarian                                                                     
institution in Alaska's government.  Its members are elected, and                                                               
thus its focus is on implementing the will of the majority of the                                                               
people.  In contrast, the courts are not a majoritarian                                                                         
institution.  Judges aren't elected, which was intentional.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN noted that James Madison - who is called the father                                                             
of the constitution, and who wrote most of the Federalist papers -                                                              
said a majority in a democracy is capable of behaving just as                                                                   
tyrannically as the worst despot.  To protect the rights of the                                                                 
minority, Madison believed that needed were a bill of rights and an                                                             
independent judiciary not controlled by the majority.  Mr.                                                                      
Christensen pointed out that  "minority" refers not only to groups                                                              
but also to the ultimate minority - the individual.  An independent                                                             
judiciary ultimately protects individuals from the arbitrary                                                                    
exercise of government power and assures the rule of law.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN noted in the Alaska Court System's dealings with                                                                
the legislature two major differences between the judiciary and                                                                 
executive branches.  First, the judiciary is affected by more                                                                   
pieces of legislation than any other state government entity.                                                                   
Therefore, its representatives attend hearings to inform the                                                                    
legislature what something will cost or how it will affect the                                                                  
courts, or to offer suggestions on making it better.  However, in                                                               
99.9 percent of legislation, the court system takes no position.                                                                
It is their firm belief that it is the legislature's prerogative to                                                             
craft and draft legislation, and that it is inappropriate for the                                                               
courts to take a position in this forum.  Mr. Christensen also                                                                  
pointed out that unlike the executive branch, the courts have no                                                                
veto power over the legislature.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN turned attention to structure.  First, Alaska has                                                               
a unified judiciary:  there are no courts other than state courts.                                                              
Only about eight states have a fully unified judiciary, which gives                                                             
some tremendous economic efficiencies and makes laws more uniform;                                                              
Mr. Christensen said he believes it is a good system.  Second,                                                                  
Alaska is one of only five states in which all funding for the                                                                  
courts comes from the legislature; Mr. Christensen believes this                                                                
also is good because people know who is responsible.  In other                                                                  
states, funding comes from the counties, the state and other                                                                    
entities, which point the finger at each other when people argue                                                                
that the courts are inadequately funded.  And third, the Alaska                                                                 
Court System has a professional administrative director who is a                                                                
constitutional officer.  Alaska has a "strong city manager system                                                               
of administering the courts"; that is in contrast to having the                                                                 
courts run by judges, who are appointed not because they are great                                                              
managers but because they are smart lawyers.  Taking into                                                                       
consideration the foregoing three things, Alaska is unique among                                                                
the 50 states in terms of structure.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0624                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN discussed the Alaska Supreme Court, the state's                                                                 
highest level of court.  Its five members are headquartered in                                                                  
Anchorage.  At statehood, it was assumed the headquarters would be                                                              
in Juneau at the state capitol, but the supreme court surprised                                                                 
everyone by moving, an extremely controversial decision at the                                                                  
time; they believed the headquarters should be where the bulk of                                                                
the people would be - the Railbelt - as the state expanded.  The                                                                
court meets monthly in Fairbanks and twice a year in Juneau to hear                                                             
cases as well.  Unlike the U.S. Supreme Court or the supreme courts                                                             
of most states, Alaska's is not a "cert. court."  Therefore,                                                                    
whereas the U.S. Supreme Court may hear only one of every hundred                                                               
cases appealed to it, the Alaska Supreme Court must hear every                                                                  
civil case appealed to it.  The inability to manage the caseload by                                                             
just saying "no" is one reason for extensive delays from the time                                                               
a case is filed until an opinion is issued.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN next discussed the court of criminal appeals, which                                                             
hears most criminal appeals that come up from the superior court.                                                               
Composed of three members stationed in Anchorage, it was created by                                                             
the legislature in the early 1980s, when the Alaska Supreme Court's                                                             
increasingly heavy caseload was causing tremendous delay.  Although                                                             
there had been talk about expanding the supreme court to seven or                                                               
nine members, the legislature - working with the court system -                                                                 
determined that would be inefficient.  If someone writes an                                                                     
opinion, all members get to debate it, and all review it, Mr.                                                                   
Christensen pointed out, and the more members there are on a                                                                    
committee, the more inefficient the committee becomes.  Since the                                                               
legislature created the court of appeals almost 20 years ago,                                                                   
several other states have looked at the Alaskan model and actually                                                              
reduced the size of their own supreme court and created an                                                                      
intermediate court of criminal appeals.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0768                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN directed attention to the superior court, Alaska's                                                              
court of general jurisdiction.  Its 32 members are stationed in 13                                                              
cities; judges fly in to three additional cities, for a total of 16                                                             
superior court sites.  They have exclusive jurisdiction over cases                                                              
involving felonies, juvenile delinquency, child protection and                                                                  
domestic relations.  Because of child custody and divorce issues,                                                               
those are the judges about whom legislators' constituents will                                                                  
complain the most, Mr. Christensen noted.  In looking at statistics                                                             
of violence in the courtroom, he has found the worst thing that can                                                             
happen to somebody is to have his or her kids taken away.                                                                       
Nationally there are far more shootings, stabbings and beatings in                                                              
courtrooms during child custody cases than there are during felony                                                              
cases, he added.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN next addressed the district court, Alaska's court                                                               
of limited jurisdiction, which has two types of judges.  First,                                                                 
there are 17 district judges in seven locations around the state;                                                               
their jurisdiction is civil cases under $50,000 in value -                                                                      
including small claims cases - and misdemeanor criminal cases.                                                                  
Second, there are 39 magistrates, who aren't officers of the state                                                              
but employees of the court system, hired at the pleasure of the                                                                 
presiding judge; they can hear small claims cases and infractions,                                                              
and they can hear misdemeanor cases with the consent of the                                                                     
defendant.  In many parts of Alaska, Mr. Christiansen noted, the                                                                
local magistrate is the only representative of state government                                                                 
other than the employee of the Department of Transportation and                                                                 
Public Facilities who plows the runway.  Furthermore, there are a                                                               
number of part-time magistrates who might work upstairs over the                                                                
general store, for example, 15 hours a week.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN reported that last year these judges heard about                                                                
156,000 different cases, an increase of 5.5 percent over the year                                                               
before.  The trend for the court system's caseload has been a                                                                   
steady rise over the last decade.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0914                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN noted that the Alaska Court System also includes                                                                
the administration under which he himself works.  He commented that                                                             
separation of powers is not particularly efficient.  For example,                                                               
the court system has to have its own personnel office, facilities                                                               
office, computer shop and so forth, as does the legislature.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN pointed out two other small entities within the                                                                 
judicial system.  First, the Alaska Commission on Judicial Conduct                                                              
has an executive director and nine members:  three judges, three                                                                
members of the general public, and three lawyers who have at least                                                              
ten years' experience practicing in Alaska.  Second, the Alaska                                                                 
Judicial Council is composed of three public members, three                                                                     
attorneys and the chief justice; however, the chief justice only                                                                
votes in case of a tie.  When there is a judicial vacancy, the                                                                  
Alaska Judicial Council takes applications from lawyers, evaluates                                                              
their professional qualities, then sends a list of nominees to the                                                              
governor for selection.  The council also collects information from                                                             
lawyers, police officers and jurors about the qualifications of a                                                               
judge who is standing for retention.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1011                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT noted that the committee has several matters before                                                               
it dealing with selection, election or appointment of judges.  He                                                               
requested confirmation that the court system wouldn't be supportive                                                             
of electing judges or other members of the judiciary.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN agreed that several proposed constitutional                                                                     
amendments would affect the manner in which judges are selected.                                                                
He then explained that looking at the trend over the last 200                                                                   
years, the method of selection of federal judges has always been                                                                
the same:  they are appointed by the President, without regard to                                                               
qualifications beyond their being an attorney, and then it goes to                                                              
the U.S. Senate for confirmation.  This is the pure form that the                                                               
framers of the federal constitution set up.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN continued.  As states began adopting their own                                                                  
constitutions, most adopted this federal method.  As time went on,                                                              
however, people in control - those making up the majority of a                                                                  
state - frequently resented that an institution was charged with                                                                
protecting the rights of the minority and individuals.  Therefore,                                                              
most states changed over to an electoral system.  Judges became                                                                 
elected officers, just like legislators.  They ran in contested                                                                 
elections and became yet another majoritarian body.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN noted that around the 1940s, things started                                                                     
swinging back, settling not on the federal model but on the so-                                                                 
called Missouri Plan, which was a happy medium.  Under this system,                                                             
a list of nominees goes to a governor, based on merit.  From that                                                               
list, the governor has to pick one person, who is appointed to the                                                              
bench.  Then, every so many years, the voters have a chance to vote                                                             
"yes" or "no" as to whether they are comfortable with that judge.                                                               
Missouri was the first state to adopt the plan, and Alaska was the                                                              
second.  Now about a third of the states use it, and Alaska is                                                                  
actually looked to as a model by these other states.  Alaska has                                                                
the most comprehensive retention elections anywhere, Mr.                                                                        
Christensen noted, and more information is provided to the voters                                                               
than in any other state.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN expressed confidence that Alaska's current system                                                               
of selection is working quite well.  He suggested that attorneys                                                                
practicing in Alaska over the last 30 years would almost uniformly                                                              
say the quality of judges on the bench today is head and shoulders                                                              
above what it was 20 or 30 years ago.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1177                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT referred to a conference in Washington to be held                                                                 
March 2 - 3 regarding judicial selection.  He asked whether anyone                                                              
from the Alaska Court System would be attending that.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN offered to find that out.  In response to another                                                               
question, he said the Alaska Supreme Court's twice-yearly visits to                                                             
Juneau used to be more frequent, but the caseload in Juneau has                                                                 
been decreasing.  The court also has been attempting to use some                                                                
video networking to try to hear cases in various places, simply to                                                              
make it more convenient for litigants and attorneys around the                                                                  
state, so they don't have to fly to one of the three major cities.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT mentioned a meeting in Anchorage a couple of months                                                               
ago regarding electronic filings.  He asked Mr. Christensen to                                                                  
briefly summarize that discussion and the direction that the Alaska                                                             
Court System is going.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1251                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN answered that electronic filing of court documents                                                              
is the future.  Unfortunately, for the Alaska Court System it is                                                                
still a good ways away.  Right now all court documents are filed in                                                             
paper form:  a person brings them to the courthouse, and if the                                                                 
document requires a filing fee, the person also brings a check.                                                                 
Outside Alaska, several court systems - mostly very small county                                                                
courts or some low-volume federal courts - allow both filing                                                                    
documents and paying filing fees electronically over the Internet.                                                              
Obviously, this is a tremendous convenience to lawyers and                                                                      
litigants.  If it works properly, it can also help the state                                                                    
because it might reduce staffing requirements.  In Alaska, however,                                                             
it will be a number of years before that can be done.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN reminded members that the Alaska Court System has                                                               
been the last of the three branches to be computerized; in fact,                                                                
they are still attempting to do so, and they are seriously behind                                                               
the curve in many areas.  This year, for the first time, they have                                                              
a capital budget request for a comprehensive case management                                                                    
system, which will be the first piece needed to make electronic                                                                 
filing a reality a few years in the future.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1375                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG expressed distress at hearing about the                                                                 
lack of a management information system (MIS).  He suggested it                                                                 
might have been a blessing to have the system computerized late,                                                                
however, as perhaps they would get better equipment or systems.  He                                                             
asked what type of system the court has now.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN agreed it was certainly a blessing in terms of so-                                                              
called Y2K, because the court system had bought most of their                                                                   
equipment in the last four years, making sure as they did so that                                                               
it was Y2K-compliant.  Therefore, they spent $107,000 making the                                                                
court system completely Y2K-compliant, only a tiny fraction of what                                                             
other branches of government were forced to spend.  He noted that                                                               
equipment purchased in the last few years includes networking                                                                   
personal computers (PCs) and servers that allow hooking into the                                                                
state's system; it is not yet a complete system.  The main problem                                                              
is lack of software to do a comprehensive case management system.                                                               
They have a 20-year-old statistics accounting program, modified                                                                 
over the years to do some very limited case tracking.  Mr.                                                                      
Christensen clarified that when he says "comprehensive case                                                                     
management system," he means taking most of the information in a                                                                
case - who filed it, what it is about, what the judgment was,                                                                   
whether or not a fine has been paid, and so forth - and entering it                                                             
into a computer.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN pointed out that now that information is only on                                                                
paper, causing the court system problems but also causing data                                                                  
entry problems in other state entities such as the Child Support                                                                
Enforcement Division (CSED) or the Alaska State Troopers.  The                                                                  
courts provide paper judgments, then the other agencies enter the                                                               
information into their own computers.  Instead, the courts need a                                                               
system whereby they can enter information into their own computers                                                              
and have it automatically transmitted.  They have been working on                                                               
this for several years, and the hardware purchased over the last                                                                
few years will make this work.  This year, as the court system's                                                                
capital request, they are asking for money to actually purchase the                                                             
software that will make all of this come together.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1487                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked whether that software can be an off-                                                              
the-shelf purchase or must be written for the court system.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN said that is an excellent question.  The court                                                                  
system started this about five years ago, when no off-the-shelf                                                                 
software was available.  He pointed out that every court system is                                                              
different, including the way cases are counted, the statutes, and                                                               
so forth; no one system will work exactly for every court system                                                                
without modification.  The Alaska Court System had attempted to                                                                 
work with a contractor to take something that existed commercially                                                              
but was designed for a county court system; however, that didn't                                                                
come to fruition, as the contractor "spent millions of dollars of                                                               
their own money and then threw up their hands in disgust."                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN pointed out that in the last two years, however,                                                                
several large comprehensive software packages have become available                                                             
that the court system believes would require very little                                                                        
modification.  They have already done all the groundwork to know                                                                
exactly what modifications they need.  The court system believes                                                                
that over a two-year period it would require about $2.75 million to                                                             
design the software and then have it up and running in 50 different                                                             
courts; they will talk about that with the finance committees this                                                              
year.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN noted that this would benefit more than the court                                                               
system.  It would also provide the legislature the kinds of crime                                                               
statistics and tort reform statistics that they request, for                                                                    
example, which cannot be provided now.  Furthermore, it would                                                                   
enable other agencies to do away with many data entry people.  It                                                               
would be a positive solution for the state.  Mr. Christensen                                                                    
believes the whole system could be up and running in about two                                                                  
years if the funding were received.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1578                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI asked whether the rise in caseload applies                                                             
only to the district court.  She requested a breakdown.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN specified that the overall caseload for all courts                                                              
was up 5.4 percent.  He indicated there was no rise in the superior                                                             
court caseload this year, for the first time in about five years,                                                               
whereas the district court caseload was up substantially.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI noted that the jurisdictional limit for                                                                
small claims court had been raised, then suggested that wouldn't                                                                
have much impact, as it is lumped under district court anyway.  She                                                             
said she was looking to see where the movement or activity is.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHRISTENSEN responded that the small claims caseload hasn't                                                                 
increased tremendously since that time, although perhaps there has                                                              
been a shift from district court to small claims court.  When the                                                               
small claims jurisdiction was raised several years ago, the courts                                                              
went back through their records; although numbers of small claims                                                               
cases had repeatedly gone up and down, they couldn't pin it on                                                                  
anything specific.  Many things seem to affect small claims court,                                                              
and the court system isn't even sure what they all are.  However,                                                               
they see a definite slow upward trend in everything over the last                                                               
decade, while budgets are going down.  "We've made a number of                                                                  
changes in the last two years to do things more efficiently, but                                                                
we're still treading water," he concluded.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked if there were further questions, then thanked                                                               
Mr. Christensen.  He called a brief at-ease at 1:45 p.m. [End of                                                                
Tape 00-1.]                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB 220 - COMMUNITY PROPERTY AGREEMENT/TRUSTS                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-2, SIDE A                                                                                                               
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT called the meeting back to order at 1:46 p.m.,                                                                    
announcing that the next item of business would be HOUSE BILL NO.                                                               
220, "An Act relating to the amendment and revocation of spouses'                                                               
community property agreements and community property trusts; and                                                                
providing for an effective date."  He noted that Representative                                                                 
Croft had joined the meeting some time ago.  He then called upon                                                                
Lesil McGuire to explain the bill.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 0078                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LESIL McGUIRE, Legislative Assistant to Representative Pete Kott,                                                               
Alaska State Legislature, serving as Committee Aide to the House                                                                
Judiciary Standing Committee, elaborated on the written sponsor                                                                 
statement for HB 220.  She explained that the Alaska Community                                                                  
Property Act (ACPA) is based on the Uniform Marital Property Act                                                                
(UMPA).  Among many features shared by the two is a provision                                                                   
enabling a married couple to make a non-testamentary disposition                                                                
under the community property agreement or trust.  In addition, the                                                              
ACPA provides that such instruments may not be amended or revoked                                                               
unless the agreement or trust itself provides for revocation on a                                                               
particular date or upon the occurrence of a particular event, or                                                                
unless the agreement is amended or revoked by a later community                                                                 
property agreement or trust.  That is the language now.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. McGUIRE explained the problem:  the provision may lead to an                                                                
argument that the spouses made a completed taxable gift to the                                                                  
residual beneficiaries of the trust or agreement.  This exact                                                                   
scenario occurred in Pyle v. United States, a 7th Circuit case;                                                                 
although Pyle isn't binding on Alaska, the concern is that it may                                                               
lead to a similar result in the 9th Circuit because Alaska's                                                                    
language is based upon the UMPA as well.  In Pyle, the court ruled                                                              
that because the surviving spouse could not change the will after                                                               
the death of her husband, she in effect made a taxable gift to the                                                              
residuary beneficiaries who would inherit after the surviving                                                                   
spouse's death.  As a result, federal [gift] tax was payable at the                                                             
death of the first spouse, which otherwise would have been deferred                                                             
to the time of the second spouse's death.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. McGUIRE advised members that because Pyle - an Illinois case -                                                              
was controlling in Wisconsin's 7th Circuit, the Wisconsin                                                                       
legislature became concerned and amended its own community property                                                             
statute, which was almost identical to Alaska's.  The amended                                                                   
language created a default rule that enables a spouse to                                                                        
unilaterally amend a community property agreement with respect to                                                               
property to be disposed of at the death of the surviving spouse.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. McGUIRE noted that the language in HB [220] is similar to that                                                              
enacted by Wisconsin.  Together, the amendments ensure that if a                                                                
community property agreement or trust provides for the non-                                                                     
testamentary disposition of property, without probate, at the death                                                             
of the second spouse, the surviving spouse may amend the community                                                              
property agreement or trust with respect to the property to be                                                                  
disposed of at his or her death, unless the agreement or trust                                                                  
specifically provides otherwise.  Rather than being a bill of                                                                   
policy, HB 220 is a bill of technicality, addressing possible                                                                   
problems.  Some legislatures are responding to cases that tend to                                                               
have a result in opposition to the policy of the UMPA.  This                                                                    
language just clarifies the intent that the property should not be                                                              
a taxable gift.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0430                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI asked whether this has been brought before                                                             
the Alaska courts for interpretation.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. McGUIRE said no.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0451                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT expressed his understanding that the ACPA was                                                              
a tax-avoidance or tax-planning scheme whereby one could designate                                                              
a piece of property as community property; therefore, when one                                                                  
spouse died, there was a step up in basis without its being a                                                                   
taxable event.  He suggested its main advantage is there.  He asked                                                             
what the catch of Pyle is.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. McGUIRE agreed with Representative Croft, saying that is the                                                                
goal.  There wasn't meant to be any taxable consequence to this                                                                 
language.  In fact, it doesn't appear Pyle has been a major                                                                     
controversy out there.  The language in the UMPA remains the same,                                                              
identical to Alaska's language and to the language that was in                                                                  
Wisconsin's statute.  The question is:  Does it leave the door                                                                  
open?                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. McGUIRE explained that as Pyle is interpreted, when one spouse                                                              
dies and there is an automatic transfer to the surviving spouse, if                                                             
the language is not open to his or her amending it in any way, it                                                               
is making a concrete gift to those residual beneficiaries; that is                                                              
because there is nothing meaningful the spouse can do within his or                                                             
her lifetime to alter that.  In effect, it vests, and there is a                                                                
gift taxation associated with that.  Really all this does is add                                                                
language saying the surviving spouse can amend that community trust                                                             
or agreement if he or she so chooses.  Consequently, a court                                                                    
doesn't have room to say the gift has vested, because there is                                                                  
always the chance that the surviving spouse might change that                                                                   
language.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0607                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT asked whether the surviving spouse could amend                                                             
it in any way - including beneficiaries, for example - if that                                                                  
isn't prohibited in the trust agreement, and if it fits this                                                                    
category.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. McGUIRE affirmed that as the language reads, there is room for                                                              
that; it doesn't put any categorical restrictions on it.  However,                                                              
it does say "unless the community property agreement expressly                                                                  
provides otherwise," a limiting device.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT suggested that is within Pyle.  [Comment                                                                   
indiscernible because of overlapping speech.]                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. McGUIRE replied, "To a degree."  She noted that in Pyle, the                                                                
will itself was narrow, providing only for her [Pyle's] comfort,                                                                
enjoyment and health, a kind of provision where she really had no                                                               
room to invest or dispose of the property unless she went to the                                                                
court.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG suggested it was like a life estate.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. McGUIRE agreed, adding that even though it didn't start out                                                                 
that way, the court said it was, in effect, a life estate.  This                                                                
language just adds protection so a person won't be in a judicial                                                                
trap of having it interpreted as a life estate.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT suggested the goal is to provide authority for                                                             
not just any amendments, but rather those that could fix the                                                                    
problem.  Here, however, the spouse could make any type of                                                                      
amendment at all.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. McGUIRE pointed out that there are some qualifiers:  it is a                                                                
community property agreement, it is a non-testamentary disposition                                                              
of property, probate is not provided, and it is at the death of the                                                             
first spouse.  It is up to the committee if they want to narrow                                                                 
that language further.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0838                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ERIC KUEFFNER, Attorney at Law, Faulkner Banfield, PC, came forward                                                             
on his own behalf.  He agreed with Representative Croft that the                                                                
purpose of the ACPA was to give people certain options.  This                                                                   
amendment maintains those options against the possibility that they                                                             
might be foreclosed in a way that wasn't anticipated when the                                                                   
statute was first passed.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0866                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked whether one of the concepts of                                                                    
community property isn't to pass on property, with an accelerated                                                               
basis, to the spouse without restriction.  He asked how it can be                                                               
community property if there are restrictions.  He further asked                                                                 
whether it is correct that people wanting restrictions would use                                                                
another type of trust agreement.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. KUEFFNER replied, "Yes and no."  Although he hadn't actually                                                                
done one of these agreements yet, he added, he would advise a                                                                   
client that if the client wants the advantages that other states                                                                
have of community property here, the client could declare certain                                                               
property as community property to get those advantages.  Yes, there                                                             
are other methods to achieve some of these same ends, but it the                                                                
basis change that is really the best thing about the ACPA.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG suggested that notwithstanding the federal                                                              
spousal exemption, there would be a basis adjustment upon the death                                                             
of one's spouse but for a community property scenario.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. KUEFFNER concurred.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG referred to Ms. McGuire's testimony.  He                                                                
asked whether, with a spousal exemption, there is a gift tax.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. KUEFFNER responded that at the risk of misinterpreting what Ms.                                                             
McGuire was suggesting, the gift tax in Pyle was imposed because                                                                
the gift was deemed to be made to the residual beneficiaries, not                                                               
to the spouse.  The "middle man" - a woman in the case of Pyle -                                                                
has no say over that.  Mr. Kueffner agreed there is a marital                                                                   
exemption.  He said he believed he had looked at Pyle, but not                                                                  
recently.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1052                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT suggested in Pyle it was so restricted to the                                                              
wife that it was, in effect, nothing but place holding - a life                                                                 
estate.  It was a completed gift to the ultimate beneficiaries.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. KUEFFNER specified that that is what the court said.  To his                                                                
knowledge, no court in Alaska has interpreted it that way.                                                                      
However, there is the risk that some might.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT suggested it is created by people who try to                                                               
tie the hands of the spouse.  If the agreement is a simple                                                                      
community property designation, then the surviving spouse has what                                                              
was community property, a stepped-up basis, now as his or her sole                                                              
property.  He said it is only this "string-tying thing" that causes                                                             
a problem.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. KUEFFNER agreed that is what got them in trouble in Pyle.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT suggested what is needed, then, as far as the                                                              
ability to go back and amend, is to fix that.  He proposed that Mr.                                                             
Kueffner could suggest language there that talked about what could                                                              
be amended.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. KUEFFNER said he isn't a bill drafter, then agreed this could                                                               
be made much more narrow, restricted to precisely what they are                                                                 
talking about here.  However, he would recommend against that,                                                                  
because who knows what a court might think later on about something                                                             
done in the effort to avoid a completed tax upon creating this?                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT said that is a good point.  He clarified that                                                              
he wasn't implying that Ms. McGuire or the drafter had done                                                                     
anything wrong, but rather that there are other options to explore.                                                             
He asked why this includes the language "unless the community                                                                   
property agreement expressly provides otherwise."  He also asked                                                                
whether they shouldn't say instead, in essence, "notwithstanding                                                                
the community property agreement, you can."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. KUEFFNER returned to his basic point:  The idea of the uniform                                                              
community property Act is to give people options, including the                                                                 
opportunity to do an agreement that isn't going to be altered by                                                                
the surviving spouse.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1196                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT asked whether the agreement in Pyle, in                                                                    
addition to listing restrictions, said it couldn't be amended.  He                                                              
further asked, "If it did, we wouldn't be solving the Pyle problem,                                                             
right?"                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. KUEFFNER replied that he doesn't know whether Pyle had a                                                                    
restrictive clause.  It could well be that this wouldn't fix that                                                               
problem, he added.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT suggested in that case it would seem better to                                                             
have it broader in the first part and more narrow in the second.                                                                
In other words, they would allow somebody the ability only in this                                                              
specific situation, regardless of what it said.  He mentioned                                                                   
removing the language "unless the community property agreement                                                                  
expressly provides," but having the only cure be in this one narrow                                                             
area.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1322                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI pointed out that Pyle was a 1985 case, and                                                             
that the Wisconsin legislature has subsequently enacted legislation                                                             
to deal with it.  She asked if there have been further challenges                                                               
or tests to this, so Alaska's legislators can know whether the                                                                  
proposed language is sufficient or needs to be narrowed further, as                                                             
Representative Croft is suggesting.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. KUEFFNER indicated he doesn't know but surmises there haven't                                                               
been, because otherwise he would have heard of them.  To his way of                                                             
thinking, Pyle is somewhat of an aberration against which this                                                                  
legislation is guarding.  In response to Representative Murkowski's                                                             
suggestion that this is precautionary or prophylactic legislation,                                                              
then, Mr. Kueffner agreed it is prophylactic.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1336                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG suggested possibly nobody has died under a                                                              
community property device in Alaska because of the newness of these                                                             
agreements to the state.  He expressed curiosity about the effect                                                               
elsewhere.  He then asked whether it is possible, under a normal                                                                
community property situation, to will part of a title in a property                                                             
or estate to a party other than the surviving spouse.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. KUEFFNER said the simple answer is no.  Community property is                                                               
for spouses.  A person wanting to do an arrangement with someone                                                                
other than a spouse must use something else.  However, there can be                                                             
a residual beneficiary of the community property; for example, in                                                               
Pyle, the wife was the primary beneficiary and the children were                                                                
the residual beneficiaries.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1449                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG posed a scenario in which someone comes to                                                              
Mr. Kueffner's office requesting that he do this type of estate                                                                 
planning.  He asked if the community property arrangement and                                                                   
agreement would be part of that person's will, or if the wills                                                                  
would be separate.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. KUEFFNER said it could be done in a variety of ways.  However,                                                              
he himself would normally do the agreement and the will                                                                         
separately.  He would specify the property to be designated as                                                                  
community property, then do an agreement regarding that, and so                                                                 
forth.  Although it could be part of the will, he wouldn't                                                                      
recommend it because it could be confusing.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if most trust-type estate plans                                                                   
aren't within the will itself.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. KUEFFNER said no, then explained:                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     If I do a living trust, then the whole ball of wax is in                                                                   
     the trust.  And then we do what's called a pour-over will                                                                  
     that says anything that I forgot goes into the trust.                                                                      
     So, you're right that most of the details and the nuts                                                                     
     and bolts will be in the trust, but it will not actually                                                                   
     be the will itself.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. KUEFFNER added that it is possible to put it all in one place.                                                              
Restating that he hasn't done one yet, although he has talked to                                                                
people about doing them, he said it is specialized, for someone                                                                 
with a certain kind of property for which there is a desire to get                                                              
this basis straightened out.  It is specific, not over-arching like                                                             
a trust, which would apply to everything a person owns.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1607                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
STEPHEN GREER, Attorney at Law, testified via teleconference from                                                               
Anchorage, noting that Dave Shaftel was responsible for drafting                                                                
this.  Approximately a year ago, he and Mr. Shaftel had spent                                                                   
months writing a definitive article on the Alaska Community                                                                     
Property Act, which was published in the most prominent estate                                                                  
planning journal nationwide; Mr. Greer suggested they could                                                                     
therefore answer members' questions and resolve some of the                                                                     
confusion.  He emphasized that HB 220 is really just a technical                                                                
amendment.  The problem in Pyle won't occur in 99.9 percent of                                                                  
trusts drawn.  However, Mr. Shaftel had anticipated a problem if,                                                               
for some reason, a practitioner were to draft some strange sort of                                                              
trust.  Mr. Greer deferred to Mr. Shaftel for further discussion.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1691                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DAVID SHAFTEL, Attorney at Law, testified via teleconference from                                                               
Anchorage, noting that he practices estate planning in Anchorage,                                                               
where a group of attorneys have been working on proposed                                                                        
legislation that they believe would help both Alaska residents and                                                              
nonresidents who desire to use various types of Alaska trusts.  He                                                              
explained that the ACPA is implemented by either a community                                                                    
property agreement - which only can be entered into by Alaska                                                                   
residents - or by a community property trust, which can be entered                                                              
into by Alaska residents or nonresidents.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHAFTEL noted that community property is owned half-and-half,                                                               
under a sharing system where each spouse has equal ownership and                                                                
often equal rights.  While both spouses live, if a community                                                                    
property trust is used, they can amend that trust at any time.                                                                  
"That's what you want to allow," he told members.  Mr. Shaftel                                                                  
explained that the other nine states with community property                                                                    
systems use community property trusts, called joint revocable                                                                   
trusts.  The two spouses, together, can amend those trusts anytime                                                              
they want.  If they are using wills, after one dies, the property                                                               
of the first spouse to die is controlled by that spouse's will.  If                                                             
they are using a community property trust that is a joint revocable                                                             
trust, there will be a dispositive plan for the one-half of the                                                                 
community property that belonged to the first spouse to die; often                                                              
that goes into a bypass trust and a so-called Q-TIP trust [a trust                                                              
to which qualified terminable interest property is transferred for                                                              
purposes of taking a marital deduction].                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHAFTEL explained that the surviving spouse's one-half of the                                                               
property continues to be that spouse's property.  That is where                                                                 
attorneys want the surviving spouse to have the ability to amend                                                                
that trust, anytime he or she wants.  That is allowed in every                                                                  
other community property state.  The UMPA has only been enacted in                                                              
one other state, he noted, which is Wisconsin.  Unfortunately, it                                                               
has a glitch, this language that says the agreement can only be                                                                 
amended on a particular date, or upon the occurrence of a                                                                       
particular event.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHAFTEL reported that typically agreements drafted by most                                                                  
practitioners would include the following:  "When both spouses are                                                              
alive, they both can amend the agreement.  When one spouse has                                                                  
died, ... the surviving spouse can amend it as to his or her one-                                                               
half of the community property."  That wouldn't apply to the                                                                    
decedent's one-half of the property, Mr. Shaftel pointed out.                                                                   
Unfortunately, with this awkward language about a particular date                                                               
or on the occurrence of a particular event, an argument can be made                                                             
that the surviving spouse could not amend the agreement, if the                                                                 
agreement provided power to amend but didn't key it to a particular                                                             
date or the occurrence of a particular event.  Similarly, when both                                                             
spouses are alive, that same awkward, overly restrictive language                                                               
should not be in there because an argument could be made that the                                                               
spouses couldn't amend the agreement.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1865                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHAFTEL advised members that this has broader implications                                                                  
beyond just the Pyle case.  It reflects on whether there is                                                                     
community property in Alaska, because typically either spouse -                                                                 
when both are alive - can withdraw any or all property from a                                                                   
community property trust.  Although it remains community property                                                               
in that spouse's hands, either spouse can do that.  That is one                                                                 
requirement for a valid community property trust under the Internal                                                             
Revenue Service (IRS) procedures.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT told Mr. Shaftel, "Okay, Dave, I give up."                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHAFTEL continued, however.  Similarly, he said, this overly                                                                
restrictive language could create the argument that when the first                                                              
spouse died, that surviving spouse could not change the disposition                                                             
of his or her property.  He stated:                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     And if they're locked in, then what that means is they've                                                                  
     made a completed gift at that time, which really the                                                                       
     surviving spouse doesn't want to do.  The surviving                                                                        
     spouse wants to have the ability to change that                                                                            
     dispositive plan for his or her property until he or she                                                                   
     dies, because her children, her grandchildren, the whole                                                                   
     situation - she may remarry and may well want to change                                                                    
     the disposition, or the dispositive plans, for her half                                                                    
     of that property.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     We are following here, exactly, the amendment that                                                                         
     Wisconsin came in, in 1985, and enacted in their statute,                                                                  
     which is our model. ... When we enacted this in 1997 -                                                                     
     and the practitioners like myself have to take the blame                                                                   
     for this - we did not catch this glitch.  And since then,                                                                  
     when Steve [Greer] mentioned, when we were researching                                                                     
     for the article that we wrote, I researched the treatise                                                                   
     put out by the State of Wisconsin, their continuing legal                                                                  
     education program.  And they describe, very specifically,                                                                  
     how they had come across this glitch, how they had                                                                         
     corrected it. ... And that's what we're doing here.  So,                                                                   
     it really is a technical amendment, ... but it's more                                                                      
     than that, in that it has some broad ramifications that                                                                    
     if we don't do it, we really are leaving a flaw in our                                                                     
     community property statute that the nine other states do                                                                   
     not have.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT restated that he was giving up.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1991                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. Shaftel and Mr. Greer whether                                                                 
they had had an opportunity to utilize the recently passed law to                                                               
enter into these types of community property agreements.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHAFTEL answered that a majority of his clients, who are either                                                             
reviewing their existing estate plans or creating new ones, are                                                                 
adopting community property for part of their property.  He said                                                                
they see the benefits, from not only the standpoint of income tax                                                               
but also the aspects of sharing and equality.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. GREER concurred, calling it a very important vehicle.  He said                                                              
the fear here is that other states will become envious and try to                                                               
do the same thing.  He concluded by saying it is a wonderful thing                                                              
for married couples to do.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG requested that Mr. Greer or Mr. Shaftel                                                                 
provide the committee with copies of their law review article.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 2061                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DOUGLAS BLATTMACHR, President and Chief Executive Officer, Alaska                                                               
Trust Company, testified via teleconference from Anchorage in                                                                   
support of HB 220, calling it a technical amendment and indicating                                                              
the desire to keep Alaska in the forefront for estate planning.  He                                                             
referred to the Phillip E. Heckerling Institute on Estate Planning,                                                             
an annual conference held in Miami, Florida.  Indicating that more                                                              
than 2,700 participants had attended recently, and that a program                                                               
there had drawn a lot of interest from nonresidents, he suggested                                                               
it is important to clarify any possible ambiguities in order to                                                                 
receive substantial business.  "We've received hundreds of Alaska                                                               
trusts from outside of Alaska the last couple of years," Mr.                                                                    
Blattmachr stated, "and we think we'll receive as many community                                                                
property trusts if the law is clarified and there isn't this                                                                    
concern."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2101                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. Blattmachr how business activity                                                              
in the legal community has been affected by the series of trust                                                                 
bills enacted by the legislature over the last few years.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. BLATTMACHR indicated response has been positive from both the                                                               
trust company community and the legal community.  So far, about 300                                                             
trusts have been set up in the last two years, the bulk of which                                                                
came from outside of Alaska.  He told members:                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     We've received substantial business, and a lot of                                                                          
     attorneys have reviewed those trusts or had relationships                                                                  
     with outside counsel.  So, it's been very positive, and                                                                    
     it just continues to build all the time.  We were at that                                                                  
     conference, had a booth, and more and more people are                                                                      
     coming up and looking at Alaska as the premier                                                                             
     jurisdiction.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Just one of our problems is the fact that Delaware has                                                                     
     adopted similar legislation.  It's not quite as clean as                                                                   
     Alaska's.  But there's a tendency to want it to ... go to                                                                  
     Delaware, but we've been able to convince most of them                                                                     
     that Alaska is a better jurisdiction.  And so, we think                                                                    
     this is going to develop into ... good business                                                                            
     opportunities for both lawyers, accountants, life                                                                          
     insurance agents, and a lot of life insurance sold to be                                                                   
     going to these Alaska trusts.  It's been very positive.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2174                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked if there were further questions, then closed                                                                
public testimony.  He asked if there were comments from the                                                                     
committee; there were none.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2191                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT made a motion to move HB 220 from the                                                                      
committee with individual recommendations and the attached zero                                                                 
fiscal note.  There being no objection, HB 220 was moved from the                                                               
House Judiciary Standing Committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
HB 222 - LTD. PARTNERSHIPS AND LTD. LIAB. COMPANIES                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT announced the final item of business would be HOUSE                                                               
BILL NO. 222, "An Act relating to the remedies available to                                                                     
judgment creditors against limited liability company members and                                                                
their assignees and against limited partnership general and limited                                                             
partners and their assignees; and providing for an effective date."                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 2216                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LESIL McGUIRE, Legislative Assistant to Representative Pete Kott,                                                               
Alaska State Legislature, serving as Committee Aide to the House                                                                
Judiciary Standing Committee, presented an overview based on the                                                                
sponsor statement for HB 222.  She explained that limited                                                                       
partnerships and limited liability companies are often used for                                                                 
closely held businesses or investment activities.  One key                                                                      
advantage for structuring businesses under one of these forums is                                                               
that a partner can choose who will be his or her partner, and can                                                               
be certain that the venture will continue for the time period                                                                   
agreed upon by the partners.  If a creditor obtains a judgment                                                                  
against a partner or  member of the limited partnership or limited                                                              
liability company, the statutes provide that a creditor can obtain                                                              
a so-called charging order against the debtor's interests in that                                                               
business.  This remedy allows the creditor to receive the                                                                       
distributions to which the partner or member would be entitled.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. McGUIRE continued.  The Alaska Statutes don't expressly provide                                                             
for any other remedy, she noted, a concept consistent with the                                                                  
purposes behind these limited liability business formats.  The                                                                  
policy is to prohibit active disruption of other partners' business                                                             
interests, and to prevent partners or members from being forced                                                                 
into taking on that judgment creditor as an unanticipated partner                                                               
or member.  Alaska Statutes, with respect to the judgment debtor                                                                
remedies, have been clear and are consistent with the Uniform                                                                   
Limited Partnership Act (ULPA).  In fact, the ULPA charging order                                                               
codification attempted to remedy the uncertainty evident at common                                                              
law by protecting the integrity of the partnership itself, while                                                                
providing the creditor with some interest in the partnership and                                                                
some remedy.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. McGUIRE reported that recently, however, a Connecticut court                                                                
ruled that a judgment creditor of a limited liability partnership                                                               
interest could strictly foreclose on the partnership interest and                                                               
become an actual partner.  Depending on the provisions of the                                                                   
partnership agreement, a judgment creditor could then force a                                                                   
dissolution of the entity or sale of its assets.  Obviously, this                                                               
kind of result would be harmful to other partners, and it isn't                                                                 
what was intended by the formation of a limited liability entity.                                                               
The proposed amendments in HB 222 clarify that a judgment creditor                                                              
has only the remedy of a charging order, and not that of a                                                                      
foreclosure.  The creditor will have the right to receive all                                                                   
distributions to which the debtor or partner is entitled, but won't                                                             
be entitled to any other remedies.  This clarification will serve                                                               
to insulate the law from judicial misinterpretation.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. McGUIRE noted that HB 222 is a technical modification, not one                                                              
of policy.  The language clearly states that a judgment creditor                                                                
has only the rights of an assignee of the members' interests.                                                                   
However, in light of concern about this Connecticut case - as well                                                              
as the potential for judicial misinterpretation - HB 222 emphasizes                                                             
and clarifies that the only judicial remedy that will be allowed is                                                             
a charging order.  Ms. McGuire pointed out that the judicial                                                                    
creditor has the remedy of any of the revenue due to that partner                                                               
or debtor.  Such a creditor would not have the ability to foreclose                                                             
and then, in fact, become a partner.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2362                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI expressed her understanding that this                                                                  
issue has not yet been tested in Alaska's courts.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. McGUIRE affirmed that, adding that it is preventive or                                                                      
proactive.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Representative Murkowski whether this                                                             
is consistent with other, unspecified, legislation regarding the                                                                
Uniform Commercial Code (UCC).                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI said this is good, and it is consistent                                                                
with what they are doing.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2394                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ERIC KUEFFNER, Attorney at Law, Faulkner Banfield, PC, came forward                                                             
again to express support for HB 222.  He said nobody ever thought                                                               
one could get anything more than a charging order from a limited                                                                
partnership, and this bill is intended to make sure that is clear.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2408                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DAVID SHAFTEL, Attorney at Law, testified again via teleconference                                                              
from Anchorage, saying he had worked on drafting language for HB
222, in consultation with a nationally known expert on limited                                                                  
liability companies and limited partnerships who had recommended                                                                
the proposed language.  Mr. Shaftel asked that members consider                                                                 
passing this provision.  He believes all practitioners have the                                                                 
following expectation, and so advise their clients:  when forming                                                               
these small business entities for their family businesses or their                                                              
closely held businesses, they can expect to choose with whom they                                                               
will do business, without being forced to dissolve the business or                                                              
to take in a partner or member - whom they hadn't contemplated -                                                                
because one of their partners has a creditor problem.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHAFTEL noted that it was a surprise nationally to see that                                                                 
Connecticut case come out, and a very unexpected result.  This                                                                  
amendment says that kind of result cannot occur in Alaska; rather,                                                              
the expectations of the practitioners and the clients will be                                                                   
preserved.  He believes it is an excellent amendment that will                                                                  
strengthen Alaska's law.  It is also important from a business                                                                  
standpoint, because many nonresidents who set up Alaska trusts will                                                             
also set up Alaska limited liability companies or limited                                                                       
partnerships; they will expect the normal rules to apply, and this                                                              
will support that expectation.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 2460                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
STEPHEN GREER, Attorney at Law, testified again via teleconference                                                              
from Anchorage, saying he is in full accord with HB 222, which he                                                               
believes is very good legislation.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-2, SIDE B                                                                                                               
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DOUGLAS BLATTMACHR, President and Chief Executive Officer, Alaska                                                               
Trust Company, testified again via teleconference from Anchorage,                                                               
in support of HB 222.  He said it is an excellent amendment.  It                                                                
will strengthen Alaska law and encourage people to use Alaska's                                                                 
trust jurisdiction, which most practitioners throughout the country                                                             
are starting to realize is the premier jurisdiction.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0049                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT, noting that no one else was on teleconference,                                                                   
closed public testimony.  He called an at-ease at 2:33 p.m., then                                                               
called the meeting back to order at 2:36 p.m.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0058                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG made a motion to move HB 222 from the                                                                   
committee with individual recommendations and the attached zero                                                                 
fiscal note(s).  There being no objection, HB 222 moved from the                                                                
House Judiciary Standing Committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0079                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Judiciary Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:37 p.m.                                                                 

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